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You missed the humor there...

HD owners have been long in the tooth when it comes to regurgitating how "so and so copied Harley", even as recent as the turn of the millennia with the TC-88B where those owners have been overheard mentioning how Japan copied Harley's counterbalancer to make their engines run smoother. Yes, there are actually fools out there that firmly believe that in 100+ years of internal combustion history that it was Harley Davidson who finally discovered the patent to reducing engine vibes via going from round to counterbalanced.

As such I find it quite humorous that an all new & modern HD design looks very much like a mid-80's Honda in every aspect save for the final drive. But I'm pretty sure somewhere out there a drooling lug nut is looking at Ascot pics and proudly proclaiming "they copied the Harley Street". ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #22
One thing that factors in people suggesting X, Y and Z brand copied harley has to do with how Harleys have been promoted and how much its everyones default for cruisers. I see it everywhere, much like how a lot of people call any SUV a Jeep, they'll call a Tahoe a Jeep.
 

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^^^

This is true, to the uninitiated there are only three categories of bikes:

> Harleys - any cruiser, even if it isn't a Harley
> Ninjas - anything with fairing, even if it's merely a nose cone
> Dirt Bikes - anything with knobby tires, even if it's a cruiser/bobber
 

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Well, I'm not exactly looking, because I just got a brand new CB500F, which I love. That being said, the Rebel is really starting to grow on me, I could see falling in love with it with just a little customization. Maybe a big part of that would be both feet flat, which I've never experienced!
 

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Well, I'm not exactly looking, because I just got a brand new CB500F, which I love. That being said, the Rebel is really starting to grow on me, I could see falling in love with it with just a little customization. Maybe a big part of that would be both feet flat, which I've never experienced!

Better not go sit on one then - you'll be hooked :D

And wonder why anyone would ever build a bike so that you can't put both feet on the ground. ;)
 

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Better not go sit on one then - you'll be hooked :D

And wonder why anyone would ever build a bike so that you can't put both feet on the ground. ;)
For True! The whole world is not above average and male! And not everyone wants a bike with the bars a mile high and the pegs way out in front. I just want a naked sport bike that I can flat foot. I can manage fine, stops are easy, but man if the ground is at all uneven, I have to get off to move it. And, I'm just not that young and flexible anymore, it gets tiring to get my leg up over the seat.
 

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For True! The whole world is not above average and male! And not everyone wants a bike with the bars a mile high and the pegs way out in front. I just want a naked sport bike that I can flat foot. I can manage fine, stops are easy, but man if the ground is at all uneven, I have to get off to move it. And, I'm just not that young and flexible anymore, it gets tiring to get my leg up over the seat.
Flat footing is nice but over rated. I would rather have ground clearance, longer shocks, and a center stand. So I almost always have to back my bike out before mounting it. I'm 75, so I understand the "getting the leg over the seat" problem; have you tried mounting while standing on the left footpeg? That is the only way, with my 28-inch inseam, that I can comfortably mount my CB500XA with a tail bag.
 

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You know, I never thought of using the left footpeg? I know, intellectually that the side stand can hold the bike, but my instinct is to not trust it with my weight added on. I'll have to try to force myself to do it until I trust it!
 

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Flat footing is overrated but a lot of people feel they need it for the sense of stability and security. I think once you can get the balls of your heel down on the ground.. you're alright.
 

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Oddly enough, I like the looks of the Rebel more than the HD Street because the rebel tank looks more like the old Sportster tank. I really don't like the looks of the "flat" tanks on the Street.
 

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Flat footing is nice but over rated. I would rather have ground clearance, longer shocks, and a center stand.....
The ideal bike would have good ground clearance, longer shocks, a center stand, and a low seat height.
Nothing currently available like that, but it could be done with some frame work.
If the new Rebel sales really take off, maybe manufacturers will get the message.
Low seat heights have worked miracles for Harley sales.
Mid controls are popular on the Sportsters too.


Oddly enough, I like the looks of the Rebel more than the HD Street because the rebel tank looks more like the old Sportster tank. I really don't like the looks of the "flat" tanks on the Street.
I thought the Rebel tank looked a little odd at first until I sat on one.
It's got a 'tank lift' feel to it that makes you feel you're sitting a little more 'in' the bike.
I imagine it would take a little bit of the wind for you too, on the highway.
 

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I thought the Rebel tank looked a little odd at first until I sat on one.
It's got a 'tank lift' feel to it that makes you feel you're sitting a little more 'in' the bike.
I imagine it would take a little bit of the wind for you too, on the highway.
Yes, it does help in keeping some wind of your torso, in my opinion eliminating the need for big windscreens.

on the subject of competition, what do you think about future competition? If this configuration of a better handling low-seated shorter wheelbased mid-mount peg alternative for done to death cruisers takes off (and I think it will), what might we expect?
The standard V-twin might loose out against parallel twins with preferably 270 degree cranks, which need less space in a shorter frame, whilst retaining good torque and character.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Honda itself dropping their crf1000 engine in a similar configuration.
Yamaha should wake up to the fact that besides the sv 950 and scr 950 they've got zero bikes for the not too tall demographic, and the sv/scr 950 bikes have too large frames to be any fun, particularly the scr 950 is ridiculous when compared to an old XT500.
What about a bobber style machine from them with the FZ-07/MT-07 engine?
 

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The standard V-twin might loose out against parallel twins with preferably 270 degree cranks, which need less space in a shorter frame, whilst retaining good torque and character.
Not if they rotate the V2 by 90º. ;)

 

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Not if they rotate the V2 by 90º. ;)

So where do you tall guys put your knees? It looks like the valve covers are in the way. "Jus' saying..."
 

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This one's easy: If that's an issue just scoot back a bit in that long seat. ;)
I want my foot pegs under me, too many years on too many UJM/enduro bikes, I ain't gonna change now in my mid-70s.

>:)
 

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....
What about a bobber style machine from them with the FZ-07/MT-07 engine?
A lower seat height would be great on the FZ-07, but I like a full rear fender for a
passenger too.

I really liked the FZ-07 I test rode, except for having to get around on tip toes.
Was a bit nervous making sure I didn't stop next to any pot holes.

I think it's about the same seat height as the NC-700x and CB500X from Honda,
and I won't even test drive those after the FZ experience.

Of course, someone could get any one of those and lower it, but I'm not too keen on that idea.
I think manufacturers lose a good portion of the market when they use a seat that's too high.
I suppose the trade-off for them is that tall people might feel cramped with a low seat height
and mid controls.

Kawasaki's getting close to the right idea with their 'Ergo-Fit' idea. The handle bars, foot pegs,
and seat can all be configured for short, medium, or tall persons.
Under the 'Ergo-Fit Adjustability' tab within the 'top features tab here:
https://www.kawasaki.com/Products/2017-Vulcan-S-ABS

.
 

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...what do you think about future competition?


If this configuration of a better handling low-seated shorter wheelbased mid-mount peg alternative for done to death cruisers takes off (and I think it will), what might we expect?
Direct competition for the Rebel will most likely come from Yamaha. Especially a 300cc bike! Most likely they would follow what Honda did and retune their 300cc engine for more torque lower in the revs. Then build a similar but distinctly Yamaha design. Although it is possible that they might try to one up Honda and build a down-sized Bolt. If they simply built a scaled down version it would give the Rebel some serious trouble in the sales department.


As to the configuration, I think other brands will offer versions of exsisting bikes{the new Scout should have been more like this in my opinion}and maybe even all-new designs BUT the old cruiser design isn't going away any time soon. I know of a half dozen or so guys who hate the Rebel because it breaks the long held montra of high, swept back bars connected to a long raked fork and foot controls set as far away from the seat as possible{I call it the lazy-boy riding position}. To them that is the only motorcycle design!
 

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The only other bike i have considered is kawasaki Vulcan S - however it is like 40 kg (90 pounds) heavier (im short so not really something that i find comfortable.. I am also realising im going to need the bars pulled back 2' (6cm) for the rebel because im so stretched out.
 
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