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Discussion Starter #1
Obviously we all have to use the clutch at a stop, but beyond 1st gear-who all ditches the clutch? For those that clutch-less shift, how well does the Rebel respond? Up is generally a non-issue, does it unsettle much on the way down seems how there's no slipper?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No, definitely not. Your car isn't sequential. Besides, a semi can do the same and that also defeats the argument.

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there's no argument i just don't understand why that's a 'thing'
but do what you want, your bike.
if your tallying votes for who ditches the clutch, then just put me down in the 'no' column and move on.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm definitely not tallying votes, I specifically asked for those that did have experience to respond. With that being said, there are definitely a lot of misconceptions out there and it's a public forum so people should definitely contribute. It doesn't hurt to discuss things when people shelve their emotions and take a few seconds to research things.

They literally make quick shift kits and auto-blip kits for this, they just aren't 'necessary' for anything other than not needing to move your wrist.

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Discussion Starter #8
Argument probably wasn't the right word, maybe theory or thought was. Either way, a sequential transmission doesn't require synchros like the manual in a car would because all of the gears are on the same shaft. With a semi, there are no synchros to deal with and floating the gears is just as simple once you've practiced a bit. It's definitely easier than double-clutching, especially when you're throwing 13-18 gears at a time.

Either way, MC Garage has a good video about it. I have personally never used a clutch outside of first for any length of time just because it's less unsettling to the bike. That, and it's fun and smooth. But I suppose someone could cause excessive wear or damage if they just tried ham-footing the shifter by holding too much pressure or holding pressure continuously.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to imply that there is anything wrong with using the clutch.

 

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I've been riding for over 50 years and have mostly used the clutch from first to second, and then I rarely use the clutch after that unless I need to engine brake or do slow moving traffic work.

There are some views that it's "boy racer" and "speed shifting", but if you understand how a motorcycle gearbox works it's simply easier to shift that way and will not damage anything.

I wait until the engine sounds like it's at the shift point, blip off throttle for a second and simultaneously shift gear. And this is just normal riding, no rev head stuff, and it's just instinctive to me. Once you've taken the load off the gears (by the momentary retarding of the throttle) it's no different to shifting up and down with the engine off, in fact, probably easier.

WRT the Rebel, I find down shifts are OK if it'd done in the right rev range and the throttle is managed gently, I would down shift with clutch more than up though.

The physical speed shifter are a different thing, and I wouldn't consider one unless I was 40 or 50 years younger and doing track days.
 

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No, definitely not. Your car isn't sequential. Besides, a semi can do the same and that also defeats the argument.

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This analogy is also BS. Quick shifting a bike without using the clutch is in no way similar to shifting an 18 speed semi. Shifting a semi is basically done at coast speeds or very slight acceleration or deceleration, not the optimal shift points on a bike. Clutchless upshifting a bike is fairly easy but what do you gain? Downshifting is another story, sure you can match speed to slip it in but again, what do you gain? I guess if it's your thing and it makes you feel cool, then by all means do whatever trips your trigger. I myself will continue to use my left hand and squeeze the lever, lift my toe and release, every time.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I've been riding for over 50 years and have mostly used the clutch from first to second, and then I rarely use the clutch after that unless I need to engine brake or do slow moving traffic work.

There are some views that it's "boy racer" and "speed shifting", but if you understand how a motorcycle gearbox works it's simply easier to shift that way and will not damage anything.

I wait until the engine sounds like it's at the shift point, blip off throttle for a second and simultaneously shift gear. And this is just normal riding, no rev head stuff, and it's just instinctive to me. Once you've taken the load off the gears (by the momentary retarding of the throttle) it's no different to shifting up and down with the engine off, in fact, probably easier.

WRT the Rebel, I find down shifts are OK if it'd done in the right rev range and the throttle is managed gently, I would down shift with clutch more than up though.

The physical speed shifter are a different thing, and I wouldn't consider one unless I was 40 or 50 years younger and doing track days.
And that's kind of what I thought. Both of my last two bikes have had slipper clutches so downshifting is hardly any different than upshifting, and while I don't remember it being an issue with my GV1200 I was also pretty young and not very focused back then. I was mainly curious as it had come up in discussion between my wife and I (as she is about to get back into riding) and she had never heard of the technique.

I tried searching for a similar thread as well and couldn't find anything. Thanks for the input.


This analogy is also BS. Quick shifting a bike without using the clutch is in no way similar to shifting an 18 speed semi. Shifting a semi is basically done at coast speeds or very slight acceleration or deceleration, not the optimal shift points on a bike. Clutchless upshifting a bike is fairly easy but what do you gain? Downshifting is another story, sure you can match speed to slip it in but again, what do you gain? I guess if it's your thing and it makes you feel cool, then by all means do whatever trips your trigger. I myself will continue to use my left hand and squeeze the lever, lift my toe and release, every time.
What do you mean that shifting a motorcycle without using the clutch is in no way similar to shifting a semi without using the clutch? Do you not see it in the sentence? I understand that a semi is not a motorcycle and that an 18-speed is not a 6-speed sequential, but you literally can shift both without using a clutch (without causing damage) and many people do.

Let's also get past the fact that you're calling this 'quick shifting', which is not what this thread is about. A quick shifter is designed to do a clutch-less shift without removing pressure from the throttle, usually by some form of electronic interruption to the ignition to remove the load from the gears. It only works on upshifts, you need an auto-blipper for downshifts. Clutch-less shifting is nothing more than a technique, and like it or not that technique is analogous to clutch-less shifting in a semi. Finally, as a holder of a Class A CDL with doubles/triples/hazmat endorsements, I can say that you very clearly don't know what you're talking about given your semi example because truckers that use the technique will do it from a stop while completely loaded just the same as they will 'at coast speeds' (whatever that is supposed to mean).
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I lost interest in this topic based on your last reply. (very clearly don't know what you're talking about) - I like learning things but not at the expense of others being denigrated by a self-appointed expert.
And that's fine too, this is apparently a polarizing subject in this community. I understand that words hurt some people and that's actually not my intent but it is the society we are in nowadays. I get frustrated having to argue very simple and easily researched/proven subjects against people that want to try and act like they have experience with something despite clearly commentating to the contrary. The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

This has nothing to do with being a 'self-appointed expert', I simply started this thread with a very clear request of responses by people that have experience because this is a question of how this exact bike responds, not whether the technique is legitimate. The difference is that the former part of the sentence is what I don't know, the latter part of the sentence is already mechanically proven. I'm more than willing to discuss and try to share links to knowledge, as I already have, but obviously there are plenty of people that would rather not grow. Literally only one person with experience has responded, which I've thanked and whose response was pretty much what I assumed I would hear.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I think people are disinclined to respond when their comments are torn apart and others are disrespected, having a healthy discussion is one thing but it feels like this thread was never about having an honest discussion of views.
You're not exactly wrong; the thread was about finding out how the Rebel reacts by experienced riders that choose to use the technique. A bike with a slipper clutch responds entirely differently on downshifts than one without, which is the intent of the slipper to begin with. People can speculate all they want as to whether it's a legitimate technique but it's easily researched and I've even posted the MC Garage video to help people begin to try to learn.
 

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I've upshifted a couple times before I pulled in the clutch, by accident not on purpose. Driving too spirited when roads are open :|
The times I did, it actually shifted pretty quick and smooth. Didn't feel like it hurt the trans one bit, if anything it felt like it was a "crisper" shift than using the clutch.
Never downshifted without the clutch though, so can't comment on those.

That said, I'm no where near comfortable to purposefully shift without the clutch as a habit. It might very well be okay to do, but my OCD would kick in and drive me nuts. I've since learned to calm down and just enjoy the ride, no need to shift quick.
 

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Seeing as it's my first bike and all, I'm scared to death about wounding up hurting the gears or engine in any way.. But still very tempting to learn this technique..
I get the whole process to it, not that it's much to it, roll of the throttle and shift gear. But what's the worst that could happen if this should go south? I would assume that I simply wouldn't be able to change gear if I didn't do it properly or correct, but beside that? Not thinking about holding pressure or such on the gear lever, as that's just foolish.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Seeing as it's my first bike and all, I'm scared to death about wounding up hurting the gears or engine in any way.. But still very tempting to learn this technique..
I get the whole process to it, not that it's much to it, roll of the throttle and shift gear. But what's the worst that could happen if this should go south? I would assume that I simply wouldn't be able to change gear if I didn't do it properly or correct, but beside that? Not thinking about holding pressure or such on the gear lever, as that's just foolish.
That's basically the extent of failing to execute the shift properly-being denied the gear and still being in the gear you started in. Occasionally I'll hear the Price Is Right tone in my head when it happens. Mechanically though, as long as you're not constantly driving around applying pressure to the shifter (which you should normally have the balls of your feet on the pegs anyways, making that impossible) and not trying to kick/stomp it in at full-force then there's just no issue whatsoever.

 
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