500F or 500R front springs in our Rebels? - Honda Rebel 300 & 500 Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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500F or 500R front springs in our Rebels?

I have posted before about how soft my front springs are. They actually settle too much with just the weight of the bike on them when it's off the kick stand and then settles some more when I sit on it. I have put longer spacers on top of the springs, but it didn't do much. I have looked at a couple other Rebels and they do the same thing so it is not just my 500.



I really want to try some slightly stiffer springs and maybe some thicker fork oil, but I want to try the springs first because I feel that is the root of the problem. So, the 500 R and F share the same 41mm fork diameter with our Rebels but are a bit longer. The R and F have different part numbers so there is a difference, although I don't know what. Does anyone know if the R or F springs will fit our Rebels? And does anyone have any idea just how different the R and F springs are from ours? The fork springs are only $14 to $17 each so if they would actually fit, it would be a cheap experiment.


Thoughts? Ideas? Opinions?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 09:07 AM
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Fork oil

Changed my oil to 15 grade. No diving & no rolling on bends. Job done.
Got rid of the crap tyres too for Commander 2ís
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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After spending some time reviewing front fork specs on the recent 500 offerings from Honda, I think the 500x springs would be my best bet. It looks like they are longer than the Rebel springs and the x is heavier than our Rebels. The fork springs in the '19 x are just a bit longer the the earlier ones. That may allow me some room to shorten them in case they would happen to be too stiff. At only $20 or so each, I think I will give them a shot.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 04:06 PM
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I'm sure you're aware that in case you're shortening a spring the spring rate will actually go up - so ot will be stiffer not softer.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveRS23 View Post
After spending some time reviewing front fork specs on the recent 500 offerings from Honda, I think the 500x springs would be my best bet. It looks like they are longer than the Rebel springs and the x is heavier than our Rebels. The fork springs in the '19 x are just a bit longer the the earlier ones. That may allow me some room to shorten them in case they would happen to be too stiff. At only $20 or so each, I think I will give them a shot.
You would be better off getting springs made for the bike.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-REBEL...UAAOSwDOlboLxl
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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What makes those springs better? Just because the ad says for a Rebel? What do you know about them? Are they stock rate or different? And what exactly makes them worth that much more than factory Honda springs? Frankly, I didn't find any info in that ad that tells my anything about them. If you have solid information or experience with those aftermarket springs, I would be happy to hear it, especially what makes them 'better'.


We have swapped fork springs on dirt bikes many, many times over the years. Sometimes we have spacered them up and sometimes we have cut them down. And I have NEVER seen a case where shortening fork springs have made the front forks stiffer. Not once. Now Oyabun, this is twice that you have offered advice that is contrary to my experience. Against your advice, I have a 13t on the front of my bike and like every other time that I have had a 13t (or smaller) sprocket on a 520 chain, it is working just fine. So I am having the same success with that combo that Honda has had for decades. Surprised?



Unless the previous poster offers some good information or experience on the other 'unknown' brand of springs, I plan on spending the $40 or so on the Honda x springs for my 500. And if they happen to be too stiff, I will cut them down to soften the front end, just like I have done so many times before. Whatever happens, keep an eye on my posts because I will post the results. Whether good or bad. Because my experiments might just help someone else sometime.



It has always been my experience that real world experience trumps theory.........every time.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveRS23 View Post
We have swapped fork springs on dirt bikes many, many times over the years. Sometimes we have spacered them up and sometimes we have cut them down. And I have NEVER seen a case where shortening fork springs have made the front forks stiffer. Not once. Now Oyabun, this is twice that you have offered advice that is contrary to my experience. Against your advice, I have a 13t on the front of my bike and like every other time that I have had a 13t (or smaller) sprocket on a 520 chain, it is working just fine. So I am having the same success with that combo that Honda has had for decades. Surprised?

Unless the previous poster offers some good information or experience on the other 'unknown' brand of springs, I plan on spending the $40 or so on the Honda x springs for my 500. And if they happen to be too stiff, I will cut them down to soften the front end, just like I have done so many times before. Whatever happens, keep an eye on my posts because I will post the results. Whether good or bad. Because my experiments might just help someone else sometime.
It has always been my experience that real world experience trumps theory.........every time.
LOL. It's not an advice, it's a fact, like it on not. Shortening a coil spring increases it's spring rate. Period. Look up any physics book and be amazed. Also adding spacers does not stiffen a spring, just adds preload - essentially changing the ride height. Same way if you're cutting a spring and does not compensate with the amount of spacer, the spring rate still goes up, but the preload on the spring is decreased. BTW as all Honda oem springs are dual rate - it does matter also which side you're cutting into. A dual rate spring essentially has a softer and a harder spring part, and the two are working together at the beginning of the travel, making the spring weaker than any of the individual springs. Then at a certain point - usually around 75-80% of total designed travel - one part of the spring is coil binding, leaving the other spring to do all the work. This essentially increasing the spring rate for the remainder of the travel trying to avoid bottoming of the forks. So cutting one end or the other will modify the crossover travel of the spring. You're better off if you're cutting from the spacer rather than from the spring.

The YSS aftermarket springs are designed for the non-140 pound average asian male, so are a lot closer to real world requirements. Also as per the link they are linear - what is preferred for all race suspension shops, being a lot more controllable - as damping cannot follow the changes in spring force of a multi rate spring.

p.s. I'm not arguing you, just stating facts. Stating that a coil spring will be softer if shortened is like believing that earth is flat, because your car is not rolling away when parked without a parking brake.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Figures don't lie, but liars figure. Did you even read my original post and what my goals are? Additional preload alone may accomplish my goals of holding the bike up under it's own weight. And yes, I am familiar with progressive and dual rate springs and understand the impact of modifying them. I have done it before. But by your response, it does not appear that you have actually shortened fork springs. Have you? Your facts and figures do not take into account what happens in real life. Whether because of the loss of preload or because of the impact on rate, I can tell you from experience that shortening fork springs DOES NOT lift or stiffen the front end. You can site all the theory or quote all the books you want, but if you haven't tried it, don't preach book specs.



And Oyabun, I said nothing about spring rates when I mentioned the possibility of shortening the springs if necessary. I said it may soften the front end. As before, I think you have confused two different things with your book specs. You are hung up on spring rates but there are more factors than that that will impact my ride height and stiffness. Which is not to say that spring rates are unimportant (obviously they are) it's just that there are other factors in play that you do not seem to give any weight.



And you say that there are different rate springs side to side. Not according to Honda. Front fork springs on our bikes are the same side to side. Now, the ends of the springs are usually more progressively wound on one or both ends depending on the application, but they are the same side to side. Once again, as with your sprocket statement, you are in conflict with Honda, as well as with me. But soldier on, there.


Do us both a favor Oyanun, please stop with the text book specs. They do not seem to be coupled with any real world experience. I would really prefer that responses to my posts be based on real world experience. Because real world experience trumps theory, especially inexperienced theory...........every time!
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 11:21 PM
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I mean, you arguing about the springs i suggested (which are made for the bike) have no specs. Yet you are trying to put a spring you don't know the specs for on a bike they were not made for and expect you will be able to guess how they will react?
Also the YSS "UNKNOWN" brand as you put it, is one of the bigger suspension companies in the world.
I don't see how you think going from a stock spring to a different stock spring is going to give you any real difference.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Shorty, you are jumping to conclusions. My decision to try the 500x springs was made after I was able to acquire enough information on them to feel that they may do what I hope to achieve. First, they are for 41mm forks and will fit the Rebel. Second, they are longer than the Rebel's springs which should give a bit more preload on my bike. Third, the 500x is a heavier bike than the Rebel, so the spring rate should be higher. All of which is what I am looking for. Not exactly a shot in the dark. Oh and fourth, my Honda dealer will put them in my hands for less than $40. Why wouldn't I try them?



The YSS springs in the link that you posted have no info whatsoever. That is what I meant by unknown. And I asked you for info on them, but have not heard anything on that yet. If you have some information on the springs in the link, other than they are from one of the biggest suspension companies in the world, post it up and I will consider it. But at more than 3 times the cost of Honda's springs, it may be a tough sell.



All I have asked for on here was if anyone had any experience with any other front springs on our Rebels that would slightly stiffen them. I haven't gotten that, so I offered to experiment with some springs and report back. I certainly would not recommend products that I had no experience with and did not even know how they would perform. Which is what you did.
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